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Welcome to the Veterinary Breakroom! Join Katie Berlin, DVM, and Alyssa Watson, DVM, as they discuss pressing issues impacting the veterinary profession. In this episode, Dani Rabwin, DVM, founder and CEO of Ready, Vet, Go, a mentorship program and community for early career veterinarians, joins the podcast to discuss how already-too-busy veterinarians (let’s face it, that’s all of us) can still provide their own brand of mentorship—not just skills training—for the new doctors in their lives. Dr. Dani’s extensive experience with recent graduates and mentors and infectious enthusiasm for vet med will be just the encouragement you need as we enter graduation season.
To learn more about Ready, Vet, Go’s free online community, click here; to sign up for RVG’s May 7 webinar, “So You Hired A New Grad - Now What?” visit this link.
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Episode Transcript
This podcast recording represents the opinions of Dr. Watson, Dr. Berlin, and Dr. Rabwin Content, including the transcript, is presented for discussion purposes and should not be taken as medical advice. No guarantee is given regarding the accuracy of any statements or opinions made on the podcast. The transcript—which was prepared with the assistance of artificial intelligence—is provided as a service to our audience.
Katie Berlin (00:30.339)
Hi, I'm Dr. Katie Berlin.
Alyssa Watson (00:32.908)
and I'm Dr. Alyssa Watson.
Katie Berlin (00:35.107)
Thanks for joining us in the Veterinary Breakroom. These are conversations where we chat informally about relevant topics in vet med and the world. And today we are talking about mentorship, which is definitely a buzzword these days, but that does not make it less important. And specifically, we're interested today in how busy practitioners, which we've all been and still are, can provide support especially for recent grads without feeling totally overwhelmed and like they have to make it a second full-time job in addition to their clinical work. So to help us unpack this, we have a special guest today, Dr. Dani Rabwin of Ready, Vet, Go. Welcome, Dani, we're so excited to have you.
Dani Rabwin (01:18.757)
Thank you. Really excited to be here. Thanks for asking me to join you.
Katie Berlin (01:23.432)
Dani, would you mind just giving a little intro to yourself and what you do at Ready,Vet,Go?
Dani Rabwin (01:28.475)
Sure. I'm a veterinarian, graduated from UC Davis in 2004 and I've been in clinical practice throughout that entire time. I'm still in clinical practice and I love it. And I've just been a real cheerleader for this profession over the last 20 plus years and was always an informal mentor to any mentee, new grad, ex-turn, technician student who would rotate through any of the various practices where I was working. And...
At Ready, Vet, Go, I am the founder and CEO. I was the original mentor of Ready,Vet, Go. I have since moved on into different roles as we bring new mentors on. I found myself in the summer of 2020 with a mentee, a new grad, and she had friends and classmates in practice that didn't really have the same type of mentorship support that she did.
And we decided to form an impromptu Zoom group. And so I was facilitating a group of early career veterinarians. And I realized many things around mentorship that I imagine we'll get into during this podcast today, but it really lit a fire under me to launch my own business. I wanted to be able to provide a space for practices to kind of outsource some of the mentorship, some of the time consuming things that I'm sure we'll talk about and allow them to retain their new veterinarians, that big investment that they just brought on. And so we launched this business and it's really grown over the last few years and we've supported hundreds of new veterinarians and the clinics that they work in. And it's been a really fun journey and something I was not expecting in my role as a veterinarian. And it's been really fun.
Katie Berlin (03:10.095)
And it's been really fun to watch you grow and watch the Ready,Vet, Go community growing. And we partnered with you for a party at Western this year. And that was really fun. Had some great, yeah, we had some really great groups of students that came and a lot of people from the industry. And it was really good to see connections being made there. So that was very exciting.
Dani Rabwin (03:24.271)
It was so much fun. That's been one of really the most exciting parts for me, is that community piece that you just mentioned. When I had this baby idea a few years ago, it really was quite small. It was around working with new grads and their clinics. And we've been really getting out there with this spirit of joy and positivity and love for the veterinary profession and it's spreading. And so what started as a just a mentorship program has now grown into this big community. We have so many other areas that we work supporting the veterinary profession. So that community piece has been [exciting for].
Alyssa Watson (03:35.608)
Let's go.
Dani Rabwin (04:05.413)
me as well.
Alyssa Watson (04:07.864)
Dani, I'm really curious about just you personally in your early career, did you have a very strong mentor that you think kind of sparked this fire in you? When I first started practicing my first job, it was just my boss and myself. And I feel very lucky that she acted as a wonderful mentor, but it wasn't something that I necessarily was thinking about when I applied for jobs. You know, I graduated, just like you, I actually graduated 2003 from Iowa State University. So just a year before you. And at that time it was like, just, I need to find a job that's going to pay me money so I can, you know, start to earn on this career that I have really spent my entire life. I had wanted to be a vet since I was five. And so, having a strong mentor wasn't really something that I looked for, but I feel incredibly lucky that I just kind of stumbled upon.
Dani Rabwin (05:08.843)
I have a really similar experience. And I think in this work that I'm doing now in the mentorship space, I hear really two camps, people like us who happened to find, usually by accident, a good mentor. And then on the other side, I hear things like, wow, I really wish something like Ready, Vet, Go existed when I graduated because I had a horrible mentorship experience. Yeah, Katie raising her hand. This is so common.
So many stories about people getting hired and their boss going on vacation and things like that. So I did not have that type of experience. I had more of a similar experience like what you had, Alyssa. It also was not top of mind. I wanted mentorship, but it wasn't the main thing that I was looking for when I started my first job. And I was hired at, it was a group of three practices. There was a large 24 hour multi-doctor practice and then two small satellite practices.
And I rotated through all of them. Did some emergency at the big practice, but the bulk of my time was spent at one of the smaller practices. And the owner of that practice, we called him Buff. He was Dr. Buffum. He was my main mentor. And I was so lucky. And to this day, I cannot stop telling him how much of Ready, Vet, Go is really based on some of those early transformative experiences that I had with him. He was really embedded in the community.
And so having me be part of the community was really important to him. He had been a solo practitioner running this single doctor practice for many, many years. And so bringing on an associate was a really big deal for him. And what I realized now in retrospect is that it really behooved him to take me under his wing and teach me a lot because I was going to be a reflection of him.
And he did so many amazing things that I found super annoying at the time that I now encourage mentors to do. One of them was if I was in an exam room with a client - and this is like nerve wracking because it was still during my first year - and he would come in and he'd be like, Dani, I need you. And he would pull me out of my room and he would bring me into another exam room where he was meeting with one of his long-term clients. And he would say, I just wanted you to meet Dr. Rabwin.
She's new, which means she knows way more than I do. And if I'm ever gone, Fluffy's going to be in great hands. It was incredible. And he'd go, Dani, go back to your room now. And I would go and I'd shuffle back in. It was, like, mortifying. And it was such a gift. I just really encourage mentors to do that, to elevate your new associate in that way. It helped me so much. I was really able to transition into that role.
And the other thing he did, which also I did not appreciate at the time, was he opened the financials to me. It was extremely important to him that I understand [that] what I did as an associate veterinarian affected everything in the practice. It affected the salaries of our associates. It affected the fun things we could do on the weekends. We would close for a day and go volunteer at the shelter as a group. But if we weren't making enough money, we couldn't do those things.
I was not business minded at all. I don't know if we had the VBMA back then, but if we did, I would definitely have not participated. It was not on my radar. I wanted to practice medicine, period, the end. And instead, I was invited to learn about the financials of the practice. And it really helped me understand not just my cultural value in the practice in the ways that he kind of elevated me culturally, but it really helped me understand my financial role. And I think that helped bond me to the practice.
In 20 years, I've only had two full-time positions, one with Buff for eight years, and then the other at the practice where I've been for 13 years now up in Northern California. I've done a lot of relief at many different practices because I'm always curious what else is going on in other clinics. But those experiences of making me feel like part of the practice I think really helped bond me to the clinic. And so I use those a lot in the work that I do with the mentorship program.
Katie Berlin (09:16.985)
That's really cool. I love that story about him pulling you out of the rooms. And isn't that the case? Like, you know, it's like our parents always said, you know, you'll appreciate this when you're older. Like, we definitely appreciate it later. But at the time, I can imagine you being like, I'm in my flow here. But that brings up… Yeah. And I have to say, like, you know, I raised my hand because I, when you were talking about how the other camp of people who weren't you and Alyssa, you know, who didn't have…
Dani (she/her) (09:26.929)
Exactly. Best trick. Losing my train of thought.
Katie Berlin (09:46.765)
…that kind of mentoring experience. I really wish there was something like Ready, Vet, Go, because I definitely could have used that. I didn't have bad experiences with the exception of maybe one particular year, but I worked at multi-doctor practices. There was always somebody around. So I always had people to ask if I needed help, but people weren't going out of their way to help me. And so I always felt like I was tugging on someone's sleeve, you know, which is stressful when you're new and you're not sure if you should know everything, you know? And I definitely didn't have anybody helping me with skills outside of like how to unblock this cat, how to take this tooth out, how to write up this record. You know, I didn't have people advising me on all of the other things that we do in and out of the clinic that can affect our sustainability and the profession and how happy we are doing this thing that like Alyssa said, we've probably all wanted to do since we were little. So.
That brings me to a really one of my big questions for you, is what is the difference between mentoring and training? And how does that figure into this discussion?
Dani Rabwin (10:56.881)
Such a good question. And it really, you just really alluded to it when you described that there was always somebody available to ask a question. If you needed help unblocking a cat, those are the technical skills that I think many veterinarians are very comfortable working with new grads and associates on. Most veterinarians, I think, are more than happy to put a second set of eyes on some radiographs, to jump into surgery if something technical is happening, where support is needed there. And the other things that you were alluding to, the things that help us in our professional journey, contribute to our happiness and how we feel in this profession, those things take a lot more time to dive deeply into. They don't come as naturally to veterinarians.
And there also isn't a lot of time in the clinic to be focusing on those things. So a lot of what you were describing and what we're alluding to with the technical things, I do think those are training pieces. Mentorship, I think, is a little bit deeper. You can have both for sure, and I think a lot of people do. There's definitely overlap. But mentorship is often thought of as a little bit more of a longer journey, although it doesn't have to be. I think even, you know, I talk about relief veterinarians being in the clinic for one day can be an impactful mentor.
The three words that I usually use to describe mentorship are intentional, consistent, and collaborative. And when we have those, we really have the foundation for a really significant mentorship experience. It can include some of the technical things that we were discussing, but it's more broad.
It's often talking about things like career planning, professional development, support around the non-clinical components of veterinary medicine. How do we navigate difficult client communication interactions? How do we excel as a leader in our profession? How do we manage our time and efficiency? And those are a lot of the things that I think take time away from your typical mentor in practice.
Dani Rabwin (13:19.001)
And those are all of the things that we talk about in the Ready Vet Go Mentorship Program, because those are the things actually that I really love. I'm always happy to give somebody help with some of the technical things that they're experiencing in practice. But some of the deeper challenges are the things that I really enjoy. And I think those are the things that really get missed in clinics. You know, I hear a lot from practice owners. They'll come to me and they'll say, “I was offering mentorship and a new grad that I just hired quit and they said they weren't receiving mentorship.” And this is very common. The turnover problem with new veterinarians in our profession is extremely high. Depending on the study, it's somewhere between 30 and 44 % of new veterinarians leave their first job within the first 12 to 18 months. And when they leave, the number one reason they give is lack of mentorship. Meanwhile, you have the practice saying, “But I was providing mentorship. I always helped them when they needed help unblocking a cat. I was always available for them to call me when I was on my day off.” And so there's this real disconnect - that is not often what the mentee is looking for.
So I think often what they're offering is some level of training and, you know, on some level mentorship as well, but there is this mentor mentee disconnect and a lot of that can be prevented by having conversations upfront during the application process, during the hiring process, setting up a mentorship agreement, understanding what mentorship looks like for both parties, both the practice or practice owner and the mentee, really saying those things out loud, writing them down if we're able to, so that we can really prevent this mentor mentee disconnect. And so we're not just training, we're actually providing really deep mentorship as well.
Alyssa Watson (15:13.288)
Is there opportunity for other associates within the practice to, if they really feel strongly that they would be a good mentor, to have this be at the level of not necessarily the owner or the boss or management in some of the corporate practices? And what, kind of looking at that, because like you said, mentorship takes time, it takes energy, it takes time away from when we could be seeing patients. And a lot of our, you know, just the structure of the pay in veterinary medicine, a lot of associates are on ProSal and things like that. So if we're not seeing patients, that's actually affecting our bottom line. So what do you think, you know, is there a balance of what kind of compensation, whether that's financial or something, you know - if not financial, something different, time? - that is fair if an associate really wants to take on some of this mentor responsibility?
Dani Rabwin (16:17.713)
It's such a good question. And I think it is really relevant with today's practice. The practices, Alyssa, that you and I were describing where we had our first jobs, those still exist. And also, many more new veterinarians are moving into corporate practices where there isn't just the single doctor owner. They are now working where everybody's an associate veterinarian at the practice.
A lot of mentorship actually now needs to be done by the associates and it can be done by the associates. And there are so many who are just passionate about this profession and want to give back. And so I think we have to be really creative at finding ways to compensate them. It's a really important question. When Buff mentored me, it made perfect sense for him. If I was seeing more cases and his clients trusted me and my average transactions were higher, he was going to benefit financially. He also was going to benefit with goodwill for the community. And that's not the case now with different types of ownership structures and corporate structures. And that's okay. We can still work within those. We just have to be a little bit more creative.
I do caution people from saying, “Well, I was mentored this way. Therefore you, associate veterinarian, need to be the mentor. It's sort of your professional obligation.” And I disagree with that. I think mentors really do need to be compensated. I've seen lots of different structures. I honestly don't know what the best way is, but I think having an understanding that they do need to be compensated needs to be top of mind. I have seen some mentorship structures where the early career or new veterinarian is on salary only, not production, and their mentor receives part of that production. I thought that was a really interesting model.
I've seen mentors be compensated with a lump sum, which I think also is interesting. I have seen situations with some of the corporate groups where mentors can opt in to being a mentor and they have their own support structure, either outsourced with a group like Ready, Vet, Go or within the existing corporate structure where they're getting their own additional training, continuing education training, and they can work towards their own professional growth. Some corporate groups have their own internal mentor certifications so they can strive to grow themselves in their leadership and in their mentorship. I do think it's important to have some time blocked off. And like you said, when there's pressure to produce a certain amount, mentors can be resentful of having time blocked off or time being taken away to support their mentee. And so being able to find a way to compensate them financially so that they're not losing production is really important. I think some of those things that I listed are some interesting ways that I've heard. I'd be curious if you guys had heard any other ways because it's something that I get asked about a lot.
Katie Berlin (19:31.937)
Yeah, I mean, it makes total sense that, especially like you said, you know, we have such high churn for new graduates at their first practice not staying past their first year, which I didn't, which there were other factors involved too. But I definitely see a lot of times when new grads leave their first practice, they feel like a failure and they feel like, you know, they are, it's them.
Like somehow it's them that they aren't cut out to succeed in this profession. And they might just not have been receiving the support that they needed to be, to feel really confident and to be really good doctors. And it benefits everybody from, you know, the clients and the staff of that hospital to the profession as a whole, if we support those new grads so that they can stay, if they're happy at that practice getting the support that they need, because it costs a lot to hire and train a new veterinarian, whether or not they need mentorship. So I would feel like management would see that and want to, and realize that a relatively small investment in some time from the veterinarians who are at that practice would pay off big time if that stays.
Dani Rabwin (20:33.009)
That's exactly right.
Dani Rabwin (20:49.401)
I agree. I think there are some practices that really have the long view and realize that this small short-term investment will pay dividends in the long run because you're right, turnover is expensive and it also has a big cultural impact on the practice. Everybody gets excited when a new veterinarian joins and they put a lot of time and energy into onboarding that new grad.
The point that you made about, you know, alluding to the morale of the new veterinarian, that is just such an important piece for me. I just think there's, there aren't that many things sadder than seeing somebody work their entire life - like all of us have just said, so many of us have wanted to do this since we were four year olds - working so hard in school to get into veterinary school, make it through school, have your first dream job and then to have it not work out and you just feel like a failure. Like, what did I do wrong? And I hear this from new veterinarians all the time and it is heartbreaking. And so there's a morale component, there's a cultural component on the practice and then there's the financial component. So really that short term investment does pay dividends in all of those spheres in the long run.
Alyssa Watson (22:13.73)
And I think that cultural, what you were talking about with the culture of the practice, that extends beyond the staff of the practice to the clients as well. I can't tell you how many clients. I see a lot of clients from multiple, multiple practices here in town because I do some in-home hospice and euthanasia work. And they… I have people ask me frequently for recommendations on practices and one of the biggest things that they cite is veterinary turnover. They say, “Every time I go in, the veterinarian I had seen left, there's a new person there.” So clients notice that too. And that can also have a negative impact on the practice's revenue as well as just their reputation.
Dani Rabwin (23:03.067)
That is such a good point. And I feel like I'm going to incorporate that when I talk to people about the value of making this small investment, really extending that out to our clients. Because the veterinary clinic really is part of the community. And when there is that reputation that there's just this high turnover, it doesn't look good. And it certainly doesn't bond your clients to the practice. You know, we want to be careful of having clients be fully dedicated to just one veterinarian. That got me into trouble a lot in my early years. And I really talked to the mentees about this. I loved having my clients. It was great. Well, then what happened when I went on vacation or I wanted a day at home? I really created some problems for myself. So I think, you know, having consistency, bonding your clients to the practice while also…
Katie Berlin (23:51.727)
Right.
Dani Rabwin (24:02.105)
… letting them know that I really trust my colleagues. And when I go on this vacation in a few weeks, know, your pet's going to be in really good hands with anyone that you see here. So there is a fine line. But yeah, I mean, I hear people talking at the dog park and you know, if there's a lot of turnover, that really does trickle, trickle down into the community.
Katie Berlin (24:23.503)
Definitely. One of the things that you said at the beginning, you really sort of write a love letter to the profession every time you send a newsletter from Ready, Vet, Go. And that's one of the reasons why I always read your newsletter, because no matter what you're talking about, you have a very positive outlook about veterinary medicine in general. You just really… you can feel how much you love it and that that little kid who always wanted to be a vet is still in there. And I love that because I do think a lot of us, at least in our sort of generation of vets, got pretty jaded, and now you'll go online and see people saying, I would never recommend this profession to anybody. Like if I meet teenagers who want to shadow me, like I really do my best to discourage them from going to vet school to see if they can really hack it.
And that makes me really sad because I also was that person when I was full-time in practice towards the end. Like I was so burned out. I was disillusioned, and I love the profession more than ever now, but I'm not in full-time practice anymore. And I think I would still have a hard time if I had kept on doing what I was doing. And that positivity and that sort of empowerment attitude that you have is such an important part of mentorship, I think.
So one of the big things that I am wondering is, how much impact do you think it makes? Say I am not a person who's a natural teacher, and I've worked with lot of new grads and thought, my gosh, I'm going to be scheduled alone on the shift with this new grad, and I'm going to have twice as much work because they're going to want to ask me about every case that they see, and I'm going to be running behind all day, and it's going to be really stressful.
But then we would sit in the office after appointments while we were doing records or whatever and have these conversations that like, you know, they're so optimistic and excited and like, look at this weird case I saw today. And like, can you believe this X-ray? And, you know, could talk about things that I didn't normally get a chance to talk about. And it really filled my cup in a way, a lot of times. And so I'm wondering like, do you feel like there's value in, even if associates are not getting compensated, because we know it can be hard to get management on board… How can we encourage associates to even just have that one conversation with the new grad in their practice? Like once a week, they're in the lunchroom together and they're like heating up their food and they talk about like how much they trust the technicians in the practice or how much this one tool has made their lives easier because then they can leave on time and like okay to leave on time. Do you feel like that's fair to sort of talk to our colleagues about even if it's not a formal arrangement?
Dani Rabwin (27:25.081)
Yes, the answer is yes. It is definitely fair to talk about that. And I have so many things to, you just shared so many things. First, I had to go through the emotional piece about the newsletter and how what I'm trying to convey resonated with you. I had a little tear in my eyes. I just - thank you for saying that. I will answer your question, but I do want to say thank you for saying that. I feel like there are way more of us who are in practice and really…
Katie Berlin (27:37.409)
haha
Dani Rabwin (27:52.587)
… are satisfied, if not as joyful as I am, at the very least, satisfied with their career and just in the trenches doing their work every single day. And they are not out there saying that on social media. And I think a lot of the voices of negativity, I understand them and they are real. I also am not convinced that they are the majority, but they're allowed. And as much as we can get people who are enjoying what we do and have been doing this for a long time to amplify those voices the better. When I go into veterinary schools and I talk and I share what I share and they tell me that it's refreshing to hear my voice, that is heartbreaking to me. If I'm speaking to second year veterinarians and they're already hearing from people who have a different outlook than I do, I think we really need to be amplifying these voices. So I just want to comment on that and then I'll answer your question.
I do think it is fair to ask that of associate veterinarians, there is so much joy to be had from being a mentor. The amount that we can learn from these early career veterinarians is immense. I don't have time to learn all of the new medical information. I really count on a lot of the new veterinarians to enlighten me. It really can just, it's very rejuvenating, you know, if we just let that spirit influence us as experienced veterinarians. I was just, when you were sharing that or asking the question, I was remembering this experience that I had a few years ago with a new grad and her shift started early and mine started a little bit later and I walked into the treatment room for my shift and there was a crowd around this dog. And my mentee was like, my God, thank God you're here. I don't know what to do. I've got this case and I'm freaking out and I can't refer it.
And I was like, what's going on? And she's like, look at its eyes. And it had these little worms just crawling around in its eyes. This is a Labrador with eye worm.
Katie Berlin (30:04.267)
Oh my God!
Dani Rabwin (30:05.393)
I know, I love how all the vets on this call, everyone's so excited. I said, you need to pause and you need to take a deep breath. That's what I said. This is awesome. When you're in vet school and you're learning about all the zebra cases, you don't realize how zebra they are. And you might never see that. You might only see it once. You know, I said, “I have never seen this…
Katie Berlin (30:15.907)
And take some pictures.
Alyssa Watson (30:17.548)
Yeah, I was gonna say, get out something to record it.
Dani Rabwin (30:35.171)
… in 20 years. I have never seen this. This is awesome. Your patient isn't going to die. We're going to figure it out, but take some pictures, take a deep breath and just enjoy this moment." And she was like, okay. And then we paused and we had to pull out some textbooks and we had to call an ophthalmologist and we got it sorted out and everything was fine. But that moment was really exciting for me and for me to impress upon her out how exciting it should be for her too.
There's little moments like this that we can really share knowledge and information with our mentees that goes way beyond financial compensation. Even if you're a veterinarian who's been in practice for three, four, five years and you are still struggling with some of your own confidence issues or imposter syndrome issues, you have that much more experience than the new veterinarian who was just hired. And those lunchroom conversations are really meaningful.
And so, yes, I do think it's fair, to answer the question, to ask that of veterinarians to a degree. We have to be mindful of the time it's taking away from their own practice. But as much as we can, let mentors know what they're going to get out of the experience as well. I had never spayed a rabbit. And my mentee, when she started with us, was hot off a rotation at the shelter where she had just spayed dozens of rabbits. And she was like, I'll teach you how to do that.
So she did, and it was really amazing. I didn't think I would ever be able to do that. I was really, really afraid. And she talked me through it, and it was amazing. And it was a great way to boost her confidence. It was a mutual exchange and mutually beneficial. And so as much as we can let mentors know what they're going to get out of the experience, aside from anything financial, I think is really important.
Katie Berlin (32:15.374)
Yeah.
Alyssa Watson (32:30.602)
I… one of the things that this whole conversation has brought for me is just looking back over my 20-some years and that “see one, do one, teach one” mentality. I just hope we don't ever get away from that in veterinary medicine because like you said, there's so much. In 20-some years, there's so much that I've never seen. And then of course you'll have some crazy thing walk through the door and you'll see three of them in a month and a half because that's how this profession works.
And so, you know, like I said, I feel very, very lucky. I know early on in my career, I had a fat cat, a young cat that had a capital physeal fracture, and I'd never done an FHO on a cat. And I actually called a veterinarian, not a boarded surgeon, but a veterinarian that did a lot of surgery from the practice down the street. And he came over and he did that surgery with me. And then the next one I did myself, you know? And so, you know, bringing, just remembering that it's okay to reach out and help somebody, you know, and be open to the fact that if you get a call from somebody down the street, you know, that you can really change their outlook or change, you know, you might change the way they practice for the rest of their career. And that's right, exactly.
Katie Berlin (33:54.787)
And they're probably going to pay it forward if you do that. Yeah.
Dani Rabwin (33:58.491)
They will, and I think we have gotten away from that a little bit. I love that story so much. And it makes me want to ask, you know, the early career vets that I work with, how often they're doing that, because people do want to give back. We are a really generous profession. I, you know, think really highly of our colleagues. I think we're really special people and we like to help.
And… I do love those kinds of stories. And I think the days of picking up the phone and just calling the neighbor colleague, they don't happen as frequently as they used to. And I really think they should. I think so many of us have stories like that. I myself was in practice, I don't know, it was years ago at this point, but I've been in California the whole time where we do not have porcupines. And one of my patients had been on vacation in Michigan with their family and was porcupined and went to the local emergency clinic there and they were all removed except for one, which was right near the medial canthus of the eye and it was missed. And they drove back to California and came to me because the dog was squinting and I sedated the pet and found this quill and I had no idea what to do. How do you remove it? I was petrified that it was going to break.
It was evening in California. So I looked up an emergency clinic in Michigan, just a random clinic. And I just called and I said, can I have a veterinarian on the phone? I have this porcupine quill. And she was incredible. And she talked me through the whole thing, how to look at it. And if it was a certain color porcupine quill, I was to pull it straight. And if it was a different color, I was to twist it because it had these burrs. It was amazing. She talked me through the whole thing. And then at the end, she said, I've never seen a fox tail. How do you get one of those out? I don't know how to do that. And it was just this fun mutual exchange, like your FHO story.
Yeah, I think we need to do that a little bit more. And you can do that every day just in your daily practice too.
Katie Berlin (36:01.615)
Okay, I have one more question for you. Your program and a lot of mentorship programs, I think, you know, there's clinical aspects to it, obviously, you have a lot of good webinars that I've seen that are open to the community and have some really great clinical information in them. But you also feature content that tries to teach, like, work life integration and boundary setting and setting expectations and communication.
And that is all so essential to a happy life in this practice, probably more essential than knowing how to remove a porcupine quill, because you can look that up or you can call somebody. You can't call somebody and be like, is it okay for me to want to leave on time? You know, it's such a complicated question. And so I think it's so wonderful that programs designed to sort of take some of that outsourced mentoring on are talking about those things with probably equal frequency as clinical stuff.
But I also have found in my own experience that you can go to all the lectures in the world that you want to about that stuff. And if you come back to your own practice and the management or leadership there does not agree with what you've just learned, it's going to create conflict. And then you're sort of stuck with this, well, OK. I've been told it's okay for me to set boundaries and that like, I probably shouldn't be staying three hours past my shift every day, but that's the culture here. And nobody wants to hear it when I ask if there's ways that we can work on that. So how would you suggest that practices and mentees should have navigate that balance between outsourced mentorship and what the culture, the existing culture of the practice might be?
Dani Rabwin (37:53.105)
That is a really good question and something that I hear frequently.
I think, you know, I would be hard pressed to find somebody in leadership who really deeply says, our culture is that you stay three hours behind. There's usually something behind that. And like everything or most things that, you know, I work with mentees on, it is approaching something from a place of curiosity.
You know, and when we have these conversations with our leadership, not just coming in and saying, I'm here three hours late and I need to get out on time and not having some idea of what the solution might look like. Part of why I think Ready, Vet, Go and some of the other external mentorship programs are resonating so well with so many different groups, including corporate groups and independent practices, is that we are a safe space for mentees to work out some of the challenges that they're having in the practice. The corporate groups that we support actually really enjoy that part. And so what we do in our program is we really help empower associates to identify and dive deeply into the reasons why they might be staying three hours behind. They might think it's one thing and actually realize that it's something else.
They might quickly go to blame the culture of their practice, but realizing that actually maybe they are inefficient at delegating and taking on too much for themselves and not letting go of some of the things that they can utilize their team for. And so these things take time. And this is why I think having a remote program like Ready, Vet, Go to navigate some of those challenges is really important.
In our program, our mentors, in addition to having had at least 10 years of clinical experience, all need to have had a leadership role in our profession, either as a practice owner or a medical director or some other way to have demonstrated that they understand the business side and the leadership side of the profession. And that is because so many of the challenges are what you described, Katie, where a mentee is going to have to go back to their leadership to talk about some of the things that they're learning and some of the ways that they want things to change. And we need people to be having these discussions with mentees who understand what those conversations ought to look like.
So when I set out with this program and I had this very high bar, you know, must have had 10 years of clinical experience, must have held a leadership or business position in the practice, and then number three, after doing all that, must love vet med - I was told we're not going to find those people. And actually what we've done is attracted way more people than we could possibly use because there are lots of people who meet those requirements. And that's important to me because while the mentees will often come to - we call them pack meetings and they're small group meetings with three to five early career veterinarians and a ready vet co-mentor - they can come to those meetings with any question. Usually the question is about a medical case and they realize within five minutes they actually understand how to manage that medical case.
They're now having to manage that medical case within all of the structures of the veterinary practice, all the challenges that they're having in the clinic, all of the interactions that they're having with the client, the clients, you know, cultural and beliefs and values and biases and budgets and all of those things and existing within a team in a practice. Those are the things that take more time to dive deeply into. And so being able to outsource that to another group, I think is really important.
I don't know if that fully answered the question. But I think so much of what we do is role playing and helping mentees come up with language that is authentic to them to take back to their leadership to impart change. And it is totally doable. And we're proving that over and over again. And the feedback we get from the leadership is, that was really great.
Katie Berlin (42:16.163)
I love that so much. It's so empowering to think about having that in those first few years, you know?
Dani Rabwin (42:19.152)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep, exactly.
Alyssa Watson (42:24.642)
That's wonderful. This has been the most joyful conversation and really something that I think I really needed today. so, Dani, just thank you so much for coming on the show, sharing just your excitement and really, I think, some really important and innovative ways that we need to look forward because, you know, the newer graduates and the younger people in the field, they're the future of this profession. You know, I don't know how we got here that I'm suddenly one of the older ones that's been practicing over 20 years. I'm like, when did this happen? But I do think it's time for people in my generation to start, you know, thinking about this. We all want this profession to do…
Katie Berlin (43:02.057)
I know. I know. I'm like, wait, I'm 27.
Alyssa Watson (43:20.544)
… you know, to do well and we want people to continue to love it and want to be there. And there's no shortage of animals that need care. So just thank you.
Dani Rabwin (43:33.521)
You're welcome. Thank you. It's really fun to share some of this, especially when I get to hear your stories, because those really lift me up and elevate me as well. And obviously this is stuff that I love talking about. If any of your listeners are interested in hearing more about this, I am hosting a webinar in a couple of weeks. It's called, “So you hired a new grad - now what?” And I'll be giving lots of tips for how to retain your new associate, including in clinic mentorship, outsourcing some mentorship, ways that we can help bond the new associate to the practice. And so that'll be on May 7th. so your audience is welcome to attend if they wanna hear more about some of these topics that we hit on today.
Katie Berlin (44:17.069)
Yeah, we'll be sure to link to that and to Ready, Vet, Go in the show notes too. So people can find more about it and about you. But that event is, it's great timing because that is a perfect, this is the perfect lead into that. Just got to break it down because new grads need jobs and we all need vets. So we got to make it work.
Alyssa Watson (44:38.774)
Yep.
Dani Rabwin (44:39.341)
Exactly. And the days of saying, you know, we offer mentorship, those days are long gone. New grads are savvy. They know that that is not enough. So we need to have something a little more structured and formalized. so, yeah, exactly.
Katie Berlin (44:46.657)
Yeah. Yep.
Alyssa Watson (44:54.328)
… More tangible. All right, well, let's keep the positivity going into the end of our episode here. At the end of our episodes, Dani, I know we warned you we were gonna have you share a win of the week. Have you thought of anything?
Dani Rabwin (45:09.403)
I have thought of something and I love this. We always end our mentorship workshops with wins also. Some of those discussions get intense and I think it's important to end with wins and I love that you guys end with wins as well. My win is that I have finally accepted that a Chihuahua has wiggled his way into my heart. I'm not a Chihuahua. Okay, I was not a Chihuahua person, but my mother-in-law…
Katie Berlin (45:19.758)
Love it.
Katie Berlin (45:37.443)
They get you eventually.
Dani Rabwin (45:39.491)
I know, I am a pit bull person for those of you who know me. You know I have Hippo, my big gray pity who I adore. I'm a big dog person and my mother-in-law had a medical issue. She's totally fine now, but we had a Chihuahua, her Chihuahua living with us for a month. And I just really did my very best not to bond with him, but he was a little bit off and wasn't doing great. And I did a workup and we found that he had an about to explode gallbladder from a horrible mucocele. And before he went into surgery with our local surgeon, I just was on pins and needles and I had to confess and admit to him that I did love him very, very much. And my partner is very excited and she's now hoping that we can actually get a Chihuahua of our own, which I say no, but I'm a, I've become a Chihuahua person. That's my win. I just said it out loud.
Alyssa Watson (46:33.134)
You know Katie is a Chihuahua person. Yeah, I was gonna say. Katie is loving this.
Katie Berlin (46:33.774)
That is now my win also. Yeah.
Whatever I was about to say is now moot because there's no better win than, like, converting someone else.
Alyssa Watson (46:48.078)
Well, I will have to say, Dani, I am also a big dog person. So, and that leads in perfectly to my win, which is for regular listeners, you know, I had a small mental breakdown a little over a year ago, and because I found myself with no animals after my dogue de Bordeaux passed away unexpectedly. And so then I went on this like crazy, I called it an animal advent where I got a new puppy or kitten every week leading up to Christmas.
So, of course, they're all about, you know, 14, 15 months old now, because this was a little over a year ago. So they were all due for like their first booster after, you know, their puppy and kitten series. And I had gone into the clinic and I had like gotten all the vaccines and I'm like, I'll just vaccinate them at home. And then they sat in my fridge for like a month because life. Yes, because life. And so that is my win.
Katie Berlin (47:43.043)
Been there.
Alyssa Watson (47:47.712)
I got out all of the vaccines, I drew them all up, I vaccinated the whole pack and now they're all current for at least a year.
Katie Berlin (47:56.141)
And that is why we never draw up the vaccines at work. We take the vials home.
Alyssa Watson (47:59.022)
Ever.
Dani Rabwin (48:02.769)
I love that so much, I definitely can relate.
Katie Berlin (48:05.743)
Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, Alyssa's pictures were like, so cute for a few months because it was like everybody was a baby and then the dogs just turned enormous and they're still adorable but they're just enormous and adorable.
Dani Rabwin (48:20.869)
How many animals are we talking about here?
Alyssa Watson (48:22.798)
It was just three, but it was like, yeah, so it was the dogues de Bordeaux and then a kitten. I was like, well, can't, you know, I can't have these big mastiffs and not have a cat. Like they have to have a cat when they're young. So then we got a kitten in the middle of it too. And he was just like, I think you saw him. That was him, Arthur, that kind of jumped in front of the screen. But he used to be like this. Katie, this.
Dani Rabwin (48:46.641)
I love that.
Alyssa Watson (48:51.394)
Are you really, is that really gonna be your win converting Dr. Dani or did you have something?
Katie Berlin (48:52.041)
Well, I mean, that is a win. Like, yes, a new Chihuahua person in the world is a win. And like, I can tell that the compromise when like, Dani's partner wants a Chihuahua and Dani doesn't want a Chihuahua, like they're gonna compromise and get a Chihuahua. So I'm very excited about that. And I will live for those pictures when they show up. But it's also, my big win is horses because I haven't had horses in my life for a long time now.
Katie Berlin (49:20.633)
I had about eight years of a hiatus other than vacations. And I am partially leasing a really gorgeous boy named Victor and I get to see him every Saturday, and he is like a giant golden retriever. And so that is amazing. He loves going out of the ring and going on trails and stuff. And I'm just really enjoying being a barn rat again. And any horse people listening will understand what that means. You know, time just disappears and you're dirty and everything's covered with like the spring shed and it's like the most amazing collection of smells and sounds in the world. And I'm just, I'm happy as a clam out there. So I feel like I got a little piece of myself back. So it's a good win.
Dani Rabwin (50:04.826)
I love that.
Alyssa Watson (50:07.372)
Yeah, I do too. That's wonderful. Spring’s in the air.
Dani Rabwin (50:09.627)
It kind of makes me want to be a horse person.
Katie Berlin (50:11.575)
Yeah, I don't recommend it. It's very expensive.
Dani Rabwin (50:15.141)
Yeah.
Alyssa Watson (50:15.726)
All right, well, thank you everyone for listening. I hope you all at home enjoyed this conversation as much as we did here. It's just been great.
Katie Berlin (50:27.139)
Thank you all. See you next time.
Dani Rabwin (50:28.305)
Thank you. Thanks for having me.
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The Team:
Alyssa Watson, DVM - Host
Katie Berlin, DVM - Host
Alexis Ussery - Producer & Multimedia Specialist
Disclaimer: This podcast recording represents the opinions of Dr. Alyssa Watson and Dr. Katie Berlin. Content is presented for discussion purposes and should not be taken as medical advice. No guarantee is given regarding the accuracy of any statements or opinions made on the podcast.